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I dont see why you are all thinking it's a scam and stuff like that!

I have a friend that works in deVere and he is doing really well!
And to the person that said they ONLY pay on commission, that is not true! If you want to learn more about the company then do it right! Of course there are websites with bad comments but don't all companies get that?

Also, people that work there are really friendly, have been out with a few and they are real good people.

So, to all those who got calls, nothing to lose really. Wont know until you give it a go!

Let them explain how they work, wages and everything! I am sure they know best. So don't listen to what other people say.

I am pleased your friend is doing well, it proves the point that it can work and yes I would agree that most of my ex-colleagues were great guys, still in touch with most of them. My own experience worked out well for me overall personally, but not with DVP.

It is a comm model only in some coutries the law makes salary payment legal but mostly that is not the case and certainly to make it work you will need to be earning big comms. If you are a graduate or youngster doing the telemarketing maybe the money is better than you are used to i.e nothing.

The point Andrew is you have something to loose, it is all well and good listening to a presentation but that is words only and the reality of actually being there will be very different either good or bad. If it was that easy mate the whole world would be doing it and nobody would fail.

I picked up ex colleagues clients and frankly it was a gift from hell, all promises and no delivery, when you see clients minus 70% down on what they have put in and tied in with redemptions in funds and product that is bad news.

I would agree that it maybe worth a go though and companies do develop and change and will vary from office to office.

OK, I wanted to share my impression from my invite to deVere's presentation.

After reading the many complaints on here which made me quite concerned, but also prepared me better to ask better questions, the conclusion is this:

-- deVere is basically a broker or agent for various personal investment packages granted them by banks etc. You become an agent for them on pure commission basis
-- The commission they pay if you secure a sale is quite generous. However I doubt its that easy to sell these packages month after month as there are so many companies offering similar services. It is probably particularly hard if you move to a country you have no exposure to, don't know any expats in or where they even meet or hang out. Then you waste months on just trying to understand the market. You'd basically earn nothing if you don't have a plan in place and know what you should do.
-- You are completely self-employed. Its your responsibility to arrange clients and finalize sales. Although a consultant is available for you to make cold calls, create appointments and finish applications - they are not employed under you. Therefore, whether you get any use out of them or not depend on the person you're dealing with and if you have a bad one, you do your own cold calls, bookings etc. However, you have to share a part of your commission to these consultants for each appointment they book for you which leads to a registration. If you make a deal with a third person, you'd have to pay out of your own pocket.
-- Not all clients you secure are yours. If a client originates from a region they have another office, you don't get any commission on those clients. So your clients are region restricted.
-- Your only affiliation to deVere is that you have an agreement to be allowed to sell their (broker) packages on commission basis. But that's basically it. They have no other obligation to you apart from paying your commission based on your performance and your free choice to work on any location they operate from and have space at.
-- They don't pay ANY costs for you at all, whether it is for travels, accommodation, relocation, networking, work permits, licensing, your marketing or even office expenses. They basically provide you a facility (four walls) to work from as your own independent salesman, but you are responsible for all usage charges (phones, copies, faxes, etc). They do their own marketing but this basically wont benefit you because your name and contact details wont be on there. So you should expect to spend out-of-pocket expenses on some of your own marketing efforts as well.
-- More than an actual 'Finance Adviser' position (a fancy term used for it), this is basically a telemarketing and sales position.

They didn't really offer to mention much of this unless you asked. It did seem to me the statement that £150,000 a year is the average salary for their employees would be quite exaggerated. They also said about 40% of applicants drop out within six months. Clearly they drop out because they don't make £150,000 so this cannot be fully true.

Although I asked several questions about their responsibility and reimbursements etc and they clearly stated over and over again that the sales people ("financial advicers") are self-employed and bear all costs and all efforts, there were STILL people that kept asking whether they would be paid sick-leave, given vacation, could bring their families, etc..... I don't know how smart of a sales person someone is who can't understand the meaning of the word 'self employed'. Obviously if you're self-employed there is NO OTHER who pays anything for you, or have any obligation to pay neither salaries, sick leave or vacation for you. Nor is there such a thing as a 'boiler room' company since your responsible for your own performance. If your performance is too poor, however, they can cancel their agreement with you.
I simply could not believe the stupidity of these repeat questions when the answers were quite clear that you are not employed.

So, my impression is that no matter what, people still assume this is an employed position. IT IS NOT.
You get basic training, you have access to an office building they rent, you have access to managers on the site who knows the products and services, and if you show ability to sell they will pick up the cost for your first CISI test - but you are 100% liable for your own effort and sales performance.

Based on that, some of the comments on here seem to be from the perspective of an employee while it was clear no one is employed by them.

So my final impression is that if you're excellent in sales and already have worked several years on commission only jobs and know how it is to work on performance pay only - this may really offer some positive revenues for you. If you have no experience in commission based independent sales, I doubt this will be a successful position for you. You simply don't know how to go about and it would be an expensive learning experience.

Mind you, you'd probably need at least £10,000 in cash to last you a minimum 6 months to get you up and started. If you're not earning profits within those six months, you wont go anywhere and may as well leave.

As I understand it, there is only two locations they operate from that pays a base salary. Otherwise the entire job is commission and performance based ONLY. Its not a traditional employment.

Regarding age of sales people working for them they did mention one thing which I found very true: they said if you were in your 20's you'd probably not succeed in this job because most of the people investing in the retirement, mortgages etc will not have confidence or respect in a 20 year old's advice.

I agree. I certainly wouldn't listen to some childlike 20 year old trying to sell me investments!

Well done Jeff that is pretty spot on, a couple of things.

Office and co-ordinator cost you hit from day one so the clock is running.

You have extended clawback risk which means that you might earn no money or have to pay back what you earned after you leave.

If you leave you loose ALL you comms etc. and in reality you are not getting all the behind the scenes revenue in the first place.

About 95% fail within the first 12 months.

There are some big earners out there so the average of £150K from all the sats that I saw is unlikely, if you earn more than £100K Gross pre other costs you are doing bloody well. You would need about 48 average new clients a year at £1,000 per month @15 years or about £4M of lump sum clients, that is quite a lot.

All the expat centres are expensive and you may struggle to get a flat etc as you have no history or regular income in that country.

I think that is very fair, age of clients are really mid 30's upwards. Most of my clients are age range 34 - 42 and I am late 40's that works well.

Also, although you do not need expert financial knowledge I believe that does actually show quite quickly to a client as you need a well rounded knowledge of how financial affairs work. That said a hungry young salesman can easilly outsell an old timer but usually runs out of steam quite quickly because all that matters to a client is the actual return they get on thir cash and this is when it all falls down.

If you do not actually know how to manage and balance a portfolio you will actually completely f--k it up and then you will not last that long.

Jeff, did they say which ones, possibly Switzerland? It has to be said that Switzerland is a hard area to get yourself sorted with permits, accomodation etc. to say the least. I knew of a guy that went to Dubai and had to pay upfront for two years on an apartment which was mad, he only lasted 4 months.

How does the clawback work exactly? They never mentioned anything about that at all.

Although I do understand de Vere's stand in relation to the complaints considering how pig headed many of the people were and rather insisting on their own ideas than actually listening to the information, I do not understand why they want to tell white lies about the job. If they could give all factual details they would be spared from bad reviews from people who simply don't fit the job position.

Yes, Switzerland offered a base salary which was actually not too bad. But then some people on here say they had a choice of 'either or'. I can't remember the other destination. But their aim is to find people for destinations that are really not that appealing. And which requires no licenses in finance for people working there.

I do agree 100% with you about the cost of relocating. This is another thing they were quite insincere about. Someone asked how much they would need in cash for relocation and the initial "6 weeks" they were told it would take them to make their first commission. of an. Commissions were paid "every second week". They replied 3,000 euro and the  average earning for starters was £3,000 after the sixth week. This sounds bogus to me. There is simply no way they need only 3,000 euro to manage for even 3 months in a new location due to the fact that in most countries you do need to pay a 6-10-month advance on all rentals plus the rent! And there is no way a new person with no prior experience of the place they move to, or aggressive sales skills, will pick up new clients and sign accounts in six weeks!

I figure one should give oneself up to six months (time + savings) to build up a client base, and then aim at doing it much much faster.

The main commission structure they mentioned was £1,200 per contract you sign. However, you have to pay that coordinator or whoever the hell it is £600 of that leaving you with only £600... and they may not even bring you appointments! So whats the point to pay someone if they don't do the work for you?

If you don't mind me asking, how many contracts did you manage to sign weekly (in average) after the second month at de Vere? And how many appointments did that coordinator make for you every week in average?

My first coordinator arrived after 5 months (I occasionally shared one of the long termers).....so don't hold your breath.

I was in eastern europe (premiums were comparatively low) and averaged 4 deals a month at an average of £700 per deal - once the coordinator arrived I lost 20% of that and was actually better off doing it on my own.

Then of course you will be waiting for 4-6 weeks to actually get paid on anything, not helped by a processing office in Malta who had a habit of losing vital bits of paperwork.

They've just rung me relocate cant afford it talked about a basic though

Jeff

Clawback is standard across the insurance industry so it's nothing that just DVP do! With all "regular" type plans where clients pay monthly over an extended term the commissions are paid upfront on the basis that the life office will get the premiums. This effects about the first 18 -30 months on average assuming 15 years plus policies which is the norm. If the client cancels any commission you have will be "clawed back" on a pro rata basis.

If you were to leave "an" organisation they would hold back any money that was owedd to you for about 2 years and may make you pay back commission that you have been paid to cover that potential or actual liability.

It is a real risk for ALL parties.

Vickyelaine

Really if you do not have good cash reserves, DO NOT do it, it will end in tears and financial problems that you will have to sort out.

To all you need minimum 6 months money or in real expensive expat centre terms about £20 - £25K hard cash behind you.

Jeff

I can't think of anywhere that would be very cheap, even countries that appear to be "[***] holes" the main centres are very expensive. The expats there will have full relocation packages and a big name behind them to get accomodation etc.

The main EC countries are easier to get accomodation etc. Switzerland is not, it is very expensive and very difficult. I doubt the basic is actually "good" in Swiss terms and you do need a permit if you want to work there and live, but that can depend on how it is set up.

The UK HMRC are also all over this like a rash so it may well be that you cannot escape UK tax, don#t just think that it works on the 90 day rule as it does not.

As per my other post you need over £20K hard cash behind you.

I earn't in two weeks but that was quite quick. They do pay on a regular basis after they get the money so that from my experience was true. They do that to try and motivate people and it does work.

I agree that if the presentation was a bit more real they would not get so many bad comments.

EX-DVP

That is similar to many cases I have heard. Personally my co-ordinator was rubbish and like you too expensive so I went alone. That being said it does really help to have the support and takes away the relentless task of phoning loads of people everyday.

The referrals that you get, that was hard work and most people stuggled to actually make that work in truth so it was all cold calling.

Jeff, no that's not quite right. You get around (but not really) 50% of the total commission that is earned dependent upon structure and fund allocation. Lump sum makes more money in reality but is a harder sell if you don't actually know what you are doing. Regular is easier and more money up front but with a clawback risk. For DVP they also get as others do "behind the scene money".

If you have a co-ordinator they will get 20% of your commission, no cap, on every deal, plus you will pay 50% of their rent so about £300 minimum per month whether you earn or not. You will also pay a direct proportion of the office costs such as phone, equipment, coffee, paper etc. so say another £500 - £1,000 per month. The clock ticks from day one so as soon as you arrive the bills start to build up and is taken out of future commission so it can take quite some while to actually start making a profit.

I took on about 12 clients in 4 months, got paid on about 3 of them, then HAD to leave, had to wait 2 years to get paid the rest and there was some cancellation but that was always impossible to actually quantify. I earnt about £70K from DVP in that time but that was not really usual from what I have seen.

Working for others I reckon on about £200K per annum but without others £350 to £600K.

You can see why I am balanced about the opportunity from all sides as it does work but there are pitfalls, but to learn the skills you do need some support. There are loads of Ex DVP guys out there that have made it work, had some fun and games along the way but moved on to do there own thing. I think the earnings that I enjoy are not typical in reality.

You say you HAD to leave, why was that?

Bad story can't state online or offline as subject to a confidentiality agreement which I will keep to.

Unusual situation but DVP were fair overall, it was an unexpected turn of events that I have not come across elsewhere. The downside was I had to make a change somewhat earlier than I had anticipated but long term it would not have been for me anyway as I did not like the structure, either client or consultant in anyway.