85222

No no no no, technical hitch it was not. If we hadn't kicked up such a stink, do you really think we'd all be getting refunds? Don't be so naive.

I'm also due a refund - or so they say. Remains to be seen. I'll believe it when I see the postal order they claim that they're going to send me.

But please everybody bare in mind that this company has been fined 34 times and to the tune of £200,000 by Payphoneplus for the same thing. So don't believe it's an accident.

Believe it will happen again.


By the way Mblox, whose network they use denied responsibility. They too, I've since discovered, have been fined by Payphoneplus for Fraudulent texts.

This is how these crooks work. They send out these texts that rob our phone, then they refund those who complain, pay off any fine they possibly suffer and laugh it up all the way to the bank. Thieves, that's all they are.

Refund or not, I'm still pushing for payphoneplus/Ofcom/my MP/the government to do something about these people.

I agree. It's no technical hitch because my number should not have been on their database in the first place. I'd like to know how they got my number. Was it randomly generated? Or did somebody sell it to them? O2 maybe?

WINPLC just kept banging on about how I must have subscribed when I bloody well never did. The accusation alone infuriates me. Lying, cheating, conmerchants.

Like the poster above. Even if I get a refund, I'll still be pursuing this with Icstis.

I think you will find this was a mistake, why offer a refund otherwise.i recevied a text telling me they had made a mistake and offering a full refund,so if they have sent that to everyone how will they make money,I left my number and they phoned me explained that they had a techinical issue at the weekendand these text were sent in error. i dont think this is a scam i think it was a mistake. the number to phone for  a refund is 01494400138 they also told me what database my number was on. i am now happy.
mary

I received an Amy text at the weekend, and ignored it not realising it charged me for the text.  I have just received a message from 85222 stating that there had been a technical fault and they would like to apologise and offer an immediate refund.  I called 01494400138 and left my name and number for them to organise the refund for me.
Martin

Hey i also got text from them and i phoned and left details, they phoned back because i did not leave postcode,Does not sound like a scam to me, full refund sent recorded delivery i believe them when they say it was a mistake.

"massive technical hitch" my bottom

Let me explain what's going on here: Network Providers (e.g. O2 and Vodafone) contract with "Service Providers" (e.g. WIN and mBlox). The SPs (by and large) avoid getting their hands dirty by engaging in scams directly. Instead, the SPs contract with "Content Providers" - some of whom are honest; most of whom are really really crooked. The SPs and the NPs know that the CPs are crooked, but they continue doing business with them anyway. The crooked CPs make a living by sending out huge numbers of unsolicited reverse charge text messages to unsuspecting victims (oh and running all sorts of frauds from "missed call scams" to "parcel delivery scams".

This arrangement is called a "value chain" and, from the point of view of those who wish to make lots of money from scams, it is perfect. The victim complains to the NP, the NP blames the SP, and the SP blames the CP - who typically has a bogus UK "mail drop" address and a company registration in an offshore tax haven.

This "industry" is supposedly regulated by www.PhonepayPlus.org - who are about a much use as a chocolate fire-guard. Nevertheless, any victims of premium rate fraud should complain to them.

To get your money back, my advice would be to ignore the SPs and the CPs and give your NP as much grief as you possibly can. In my experience, no matter what they say in the first instance, they will always capitulate in the end if you are persistent. Threaten taking your number elsewhere if you are on PAYG or nearing the end of you contract. Take your number elsewhere. Threaten a small claims case. Take out a small claim. Threaten to go to Otelo. Go to Otelo. Otelo won't help, but you will put more pressure on the NP; and since the "regulators" show no signs of beginning to regulate any time soon, it is the NPs who hold the key to stopping premium rate crime.

All NPs will block calls to PR numbers from your kids' phones. Vodafone and T-mobile will block incoming reverse charge texts - although it is not always easy to find out how to do this from them.

Oh, and complain to your MP at: www.writetothem.com

thay are conning [***] as are the nps

Mike, thanks for your comments. I agree with you. I think too many people on here are naive (stupid) enough to think this was an accident. Nobody would be getting refunds if we hadn't started complaining like hell. These crooks make enough money to cover the few refunds they make and the fines they might incur as well. The whole thing is sickening. O2 allow this to happen because despite what they say, they're making 20% off every text, scam texts included.

By the way Winplc is blaming Bulletin Wireless for this fraud.

Let me remind all those on this forum who think this was an accident. I'll make it clear:

Winplc has been fined up to £200,000 since 2004 by Payphoneplus for Text scam fraud. Not fined once, or twice, no, fined 34 times.

Mblox (also part of this con, as network aggregate for the people who stole money from our phones) has been fined by Payphoneplus in the past too.

Look at this: Mblox fined £14,000
http://www.theregister.co.uk/2006/07/19/mblox_judgement_icstis/

And this: Mblox fined 40,000 http://www.lawdit.co.uk/reading_room/room/vie ... rasy%20Frog.htm

There are tons more examples, I could fill this page up with them. But if you haven't got the message by now you never will. Take your ten pound refund and by sweets with it up on sugar candy mountain.

Woman robbed of £94 by WINPLC https://whocallsme.com/Phone-Number.aspx/07624803028

http://paulm.com/inchoate/2005/04/82277_sms_spam.html ... see post about the scam number being registered to winstock, which is ... WINPLC.com. Surprise surprise.

Anyone still think this is an accident?

I got a text from them again a couple of hours ago, apologising and leaving a number for a refund.

Although I know this is no accident, i'm still happy to let the £1.50 go on a guarantee that this wont happen to me again.

However I could apply for the refund, but obviously i'm now cautious about giving them any more of my personal details!

What would you people recommend?

@Stevie

There is no guarantee it won't happen again.

Personally, I would not give an SP or a CP any details. Insist on being refunded by your NP. Your contract is with them not with another firm with whom you have had no dealings.

As for the question "Where did they get my number?" which some people have asked, there are two main ways:

1) Some firms generate numbers and try them until they get a hit. This is not as random as it sounds because numbers are released in blocks and the crooks have a good idea what sorts of sequences are likely to be live. It costs them only pence to send each message and they get £1.50 back each time they get a hit. Even if they only have a hit rate of (say) 1/50, they still end up quids in.

2) Lists of genuine numbers are bought and sold between crooked firms. Even if you personally have never participated in a TV based PRS "vote" or entered you mobile number on a dodgy website, the previous owner of your number may have done.

This state of affairs will continue until enough people kick up enough of a stink. Everyone who is a victim of this type of scam should contact their MP using: www.writetothem.com (which is non-commercial and free BTW)

I've also received the apology text and although i think a lot of the comments here point to people that are far too paranoid about companies, the fact of the matter is those texts were no accident no matter how you look at it. I want to know how they got my contact details when i never allow companies to give my contact details to third parties.  I left my name address and mobile number for a refund but i wrote at the end of the email that i do not want my personal details to be used for anything other than the refund. I hope this helps =)

people that are far too paranoid about companies???

About companies that have been fined £200,000 for text fraud? No, if you weren't worried or concerned about a company like that I'd call that stupid, not paranoid.

Imi, if it wasn't for people like me (and Mike and others on here) you wouldn't even be getting your silly little refund.

Hello i work in the finance department of winplc and although i symapthise with everyone here ( i myself have been scammed by a couple of PTM reverse bills) i would like to bring up some defensive points.

You will get no success claiming money back from networks, they are in no way responsible. Your main port of call should be through Win at the following methods
T: 01494 750500 (this is an office hours phone so people don't hide they just werent in) use this number if you don't want the o845 number voicemail.
E: customerservice@winplc.com. One of the two very lovely ladies in CS will do all they can for you.  

We are mobile phone aggregators who run the platform that enables sms messages to go back and forth to shortcodes. We are an identical (but slightly smaller) comapny to mBloc. Their are others eg MX Telecom all of whom end up getting the rap and blame when there is little we can do.

Once we know a content provider is maliciously using the service there are levels of warnings that may result in suspension of all services. They are fined lose all revenue they generate off that code. (which goes to refunds and /or PPP not to us i must stress!!)

It is not in a CP's interest to scam you, they ultimately don't get rich off it trust me.


And in response that we get a numner of fines for huge amounts that is very misleading and quite incorrect. Yes the news states we get the fine but that is only because we own the shortcode, all fines are ultimately responsible and paid by the content providers. You could call us the middle men and the messenger who always gets shot.

I've put anon because i may have breached my contract buy writing this not letting CS or the pr people write it properly. I don't want to get in trouble for it

It just really pisses me off that the company i work for and the people i care about deeply get insulted and bad mouthed  so badly.

I ask you if HMV sold you a bootleg DVD unknowingly you wouldnt be mad at hmv you would just want money back and hmv to deal with the people they bought it from. Its the same for us

We never send the sms, we just enable it to be sent. Once we are informed an error is in place the phone is removed from possible billing on that shortcode, you get a nice letter and a cheque for your troubles which i myself write. We arent avoiding you or scamming you, until you tell us we have no idea you didnt request it!!!


Now my rant is over. i hope everyone gets the refund they deserve and their anger is directed at the right people not us.
My apologies though to anyone who thinks its our fault it isnt

Theft is being committed and WIN plc profits from and plays a crucial part in the success if that theft.

It's WIN plc who are sending thousands of chargeable premium rate text on behalf of their clients.  WIN plc are sending them to people who have not requested them.  It's the responsibility of WIN plc to check that their clients are not crooks who are using illegal data lists of mobile phone numbers.  The fact that WIN plc business model is wide open to criminal abuse is the responsibility of WIN plc and WIN plc alone.

Stop blaming the crooks by claiming you are just the 'lorry driver' and do some bloody due diligence testing on the crooks you are continually signing the revenue sharing agreements with.

When people get this unsolicited reverse billed expensive crap from companies like WIN plc they should report it to ppp AND their members of parliament and insist they start addressing the problem more seriously.

The obvious solution would be for mobile accounts to be barred from receiving premium rate charges from companies like WIN plc.

you really don't understand how it works. we dont manually input someones number in and send them a text, we can only review if a text has been sent out illegaly once someone tells us they didnt request it!!

and the due dilligence testing is phenomenal, 6 companies in the past year have folded because we withheld their revenue to pay the ppp fine.

over 7 million premium texts get sent a day, and the believed figure is less than 200 a day are erroneous. thats a pretty darn good percentage if you ask me.

If you have been sent a text in error contact customer services as per my above post and we will compensate you fully.

It's just impossible to check every text before it gets sent and you live in a dream world if you think we are crooks

above poster is an idiot, said "It's just impossible to check every text before it gets sent and you live in a dream world if you think we are crooks"

WIN plc
A business model that is wide open to be used to spam and scam the public and staffed by abusive employees........nice!

that probably explains the extraordinary amount of fines they have to pay each month.
http://www.phonepayplus.org.uk/business/adjudications/search.asp?AD=08%2F01%2F2009&SP=Wireless+Information+Network+Limited&ST=&SpLookup=Search&Keywords=&cmd=2

how was what i said abusive? i wasnt rude did not use offensive language and now i'm being criticised for defending my employer. I called you an idiot because you read my post and seemingly ignored every item of information

the fines are passed on to the company that did the wrong doing, but because we rent the 85222 from orange it goes in our name. Simple concept

Whenever we know a company is sending erroneous texts they lose access to the shortcode and are made to pay any fine or financial compensation. So there is no way to make a profit from sending these texts as it costs them much more in the end.

We regulate all companies thoroughly and when an issue arises it is dealt with, you quote the 200k fines that's how much it costs them to do dodgy deals.

Its in winplc's interest to regulate these companies but sometimes things will slip through the net. ireitterate my 7 million PTm texts a day with less than 200 "spams" 0.0028% is a darn good number to me

My apologies if you took offence to anything i said it was not intended, it was mearly frustration at not being listened to