01277897600

I had a long chat with essex trading standards today. The net closes in.

To Whom It May Concern:

We are a professional business in our 7th year of trading;

We have around ½ Million listings live on the internet, and any business of this scale would have some unhappy customers for one reason or another.

Our Terms and Conditions were reviewed, (at our request) in August 2012 by Essex Trading Standards, and are fully compliant with all legislation laid down by Consumer Direct and do not breach any Trading Standards legislation.

You have chosen to make your postings anonymously (although we would ask the forum moderator to provide us with your details) and on that basis it is not easy for us to comment publically on your complaint, whatever that may be, but if you wish to discuss it or resolve it, the most appropriate route is to contact us directly by email or telephone, where a senior member of the Operations team will be happy to help you.

To make things clear;

We only ever bill payments authorised and due to us by way of a recorded confirmation call and a signed electronic agreement.

Your route to contact us is detailed in your electronic agreement, or for clarity, is: operations.manager@motortrades.co.uk or by telephone to 01277 89 77 70 asking for extension 7803.

Yours faithfully




Operations

After what they have done to me the information on this website could just be the Christmas present I wanted. Especially as I can not afford much now!

Good job, I have had a similar conversation with Kent Trading Standards. This lot scammed me yesterday. Tried to take £5000 out of my account (which I haven't got) I Managed to withdraw most of what I did have but they still took £200. All my cards are now cancelled. Trading standards are aware of their practices and have advised me.Also contacted BBC rogue traders and they were extremely interested. Watch this space

Now doubt these scum will reply with the standard;

"We only ever bill payments authorised and due to us by way of a recorded confirmation call and a signed electronic agreement."

What they don't mention is how they bully you into it in the first place.

Funny how they are monitoring forums like this isn't it - I wonder why

Dear Mr Boneywell

Order Reference 2940 2941

We have discussed your complaint today by email timed 0935, 0937, 1003 and 1056; when you first contacted us this morning you said that we had signed the agreement on your behalf by controlling your computer.

We demonstrated to you that this was not the case and that you had downloaded, reviewed and e-signed the agreement using your own email account and IP Address.

If you did not wish to make the order you should have rejected the electronic agreement, there is a facility for you do just that, you chose to accept and sign it which is what lead to you being invoiced and billed.

In terms of the agreement, we sent it to you at 1143 and you downloaded it at 1636 and signed it at 1640.

We have now cancelled your orders, but you were not “scammed”; you were billed because you signed a contract.

Yours faithfully



Operations

The Motor Trades Ltd website has their terms and conditions openly displayed:

http://www.motortrades.co.uk/documents/advertisertcs.pdf

Best to read an contract carefully before signing and it's not something I'd ever have signed, be it electronically or on paper, or by verbal agreement, as it is written to lure you into a perpetual and escalating spend for web-advertising which anyone with e.g. a Google advertising account could do for a fraction of the cost. For those of you caught out, I'd hand it to your solicitor and ask them how to best extricate yourself from their contract most economically.

Good luck!

The second public refund and climb down in as many days, the complaint to Essex County Council's Trading Standards office must have influenced this! Wonderful!

The point is that when I indicated that I would not agree to the new contract, I was told that it made no difference because you would take the full fee anyway. A figure that I was quoted as being in excess of £15,000.

I was however told that if I downloaded, reviewed and e-signed the agreement, I would be offered a substansially reduced fee. Even after my concerns were expressed that I was not in a position to pay even the £5000 'reduced fee' I was assured that it wouldn't be a problem "the accounts department would get back in touch and make arrangements with me."

This transpired to be an abusive Guy I believe called Brad -(I'm sorry we don't give our surnames in the accounts department) Who got very aggressive when his request to take £5000 from my account was turned down by my bank (Even after I had told him I didn't have the money) He even told me to take it from my wife's account. And then to "go away and borrow the money from someone"

However now that you have cancelled my orders I can get a better night's sleep than I had last night, and the matter will be at an end when the money taken from my account last night is refunded.

The point is that when I indicated that I would not agree to the new contract, I was told that it made no difference because you would take the full fee anyway. A figure that I was quoted as being in excess of £15,000.

I was however told that if I downloaded, reviewed and e-signed the agreement, I would be offered a substansially reduced fee. Even after my concerns were expressed that I was not in a position to pay even the £5000 'reduced fee' I was assured that it wouldn't be a problem "the accounts department would get back in touch and make arrangements with me."

This transpired to be an abusive Guy I believe called Brad -(I'm sorry we don't give our surnames in the accounts department) Who got very aggressive when his request to take £5000 from my account was turned down by my bank (Even after I had told him I didn't have the money) He even told me to take it from my wife's account. And then to "go away and borrow the money from someone"

However now that you have cancelled my orders I can get a better night's sleep than I had last night, and the matter will be at an end when the money taken from my account last night is refunded.

Dear Mr Bonneywell

Reference 90002940 90002941

Thank-you for your email dated 20 December 2012, timed 2311;

We are pleased to have resolved your complaint.

Regards



Operations

Motortrades Limited
Company Number: 06245361
Company Type: Private limited with Share Capital
SIC Code: 7486, Call Centre Activities
Inc. Date: 14 May 2007
Annual Returns: 14 May 2012
Annual Accounts: 31 Oct 2011

Registered Address
The Coach House Baddow Park
West Hanningfield Road Great Bad
Chelmsford
Essex
CM2 7SY
United Kingdom

ABOUT MOTORTRADES LIMITED
Motortrades Limited was registered on 14 May 2007 with its registered office in Essex. The business has a status of active. They were founded by     Michael Wintersgill, and Steven Jakes. There are 4 shareholders of Motortrades Limited. They have no known group companies. The company has assets totalling £678,020 plus total liabilities totalling £485,223. They owe £485,223 to creditors and are due £599,079 from trade debtors. As of their last financial statement, they had £24,509 in cash reserves. Their book value is £192,797, and the value of their shareholders' fund is £192,797

http://www.bis.gov.uk/insolvency/Companies/co ... ice-investigate

When can The Service investigate?

Note – the following information relates to the investigation of companies that are actively trading, or which have ceased trading without entering into insolvency proceedings, using powers of investigation under the Companies Acts.  For information on investigations into companies which have entered into formal insolvency proceedings see our pages on Insolvent Companies.

There must be reasonable grounds to suspect fraud, serious misconduct, material wrong-doing or significant irregularity in a company's affairs for us to investigate.The Insolvency Service does not only investigate the affairs of companies that are subject to insolvency proceedings. It can also investigate companies that are actively trading, or which have ceased trading without entering into insolvency proceedings, using powers of investigation under the Companies Acts.

Please note – ‘company’ can also refer to a Limited Liability Partnership. There must be reasonable grounds to suspect fraud, serious misconduct, material wrong-doing or significant irregularity in a company's affairs for an investigation to take place. The Service can investigate:

Limited companies and limited liability partnerships that are active and have a business address in England, Wales, Scotland or Northern Ireland, including overseas registered companies which are operating within the UK. Companies that are actively trading, or which have ceased trading without going into compulsory insolvency proceedings.

Investigations are fact finding in nature.  They are not criminal investigations, although they may address conduct which could amount to criminal behaviour.  Our approach is to take a proportionate and realistic view of issues brought to our attention, and to investigate aspects of corporate behaviour which might harm both the business community and the public generally. With this in mind we wish to know about the activities of any company which appears to be causing significant harm to consumers, trade suppliers, service providers, investors etc., who have had dealings with it.  Also where there is any strong indication of serious misconduct in the management or affairs of a company.

Such activities would include companies that:

Are set up for an illegal or improper purpose (‘Sham’ companies);

Engage in, mainly consumer targeted, ‘scams’ where there is little or no intention of supplying or providing the ‘products’ promised;

Promote, advertise or otherwise participate in bogus investment schemes or other ‘get rich quick’ opportunities;

Engage in asset stripping operations;

Target vulnerable groups using high pressure selling techniques;

Take fees, deposits or other advance payments, in circumstances where there is little or no reasonable prospect of providing the goods or services offered;

Falsely claim to ‘ring fence’ or otherwise protect customer or client monies/funds in their possession;

Falsely claim to honour guarantee or warranty obligations;

Falsely claim official status, approval, authorisation, bonding, licensing etc., from or by a government or other official body;

Falsely represent, or otherwise abuse charitable, educational or religious status;

Falsify their accounts, documents of contract or account, or security or references etc. In order to present their affairs more favourably;

Improperly (and successfully) evade debt and/or transfer assets at under value to the detriment of third parties who have dealt in good faith;

Are managed or controlled by persons who are prohibited, by law, from participating in the control or management of a company’s affairs;

Are improperly managed such that reputational damage to the UK corporate regime is likely to result.

You can lodge a complaint or provide information of undesirable activity or behaviour in a variety of ways. See the section about "How to complain about a company", http://www.bis.gov.uk/insolvency/Companies/co ... about-a-company

no but stee jakes 0845468 2000 con man NASTY BLOKE GANGSTER

You havent resolved his complaint. his complaint is against your aggressive selling tactics where you threten people into new contracts. you havent addressed that issue yet?

Our Right to Reply

It is clear from reviewing recent entries against this thread that many of the items are being posted by the same user choosing to create “multiple names” so as to appear to be a more active thread than it actually is.

It is also clear that the “poster” of the items appears to have a “personal interest” in defaming the business.

To make our position clear;

Our Solicitors, Sanders Witherspoon LLP have been instructed to monitor this forum for further postings of a defamatory nature and where appropriate take action against the author, using a Court order where required to discover the IP Address of the author, obtaining details of the identity of the person or persons from their ISP.

Unfortunately in the past we have had to take action against individuals who feel that they can publish defamatory or baseless statements on-line. We feel that forums provide a great opportunity to provide genuine feedback and indeed we value that, however, we will not accept baseless and defamatory postings many of which constitute a grave libel.

Regarding recent postings we would like to make the following absolutely clear.

Motortrades was developed in 2006 and began trading at the same time.

It was spun out of a web development company in May 2007 and became a legal entity in its own right at that time. The business is about to enter its 7th year of trading which hardly smacks of being a “fly by night operation”;

In those last six years it has become of the leading motoring directories in the UK and in the 12 months ending December 2012 generated 1.6 Million visits, 5.1 Million page views and 41 Million hits. This data can be referenced at the following link;

http://www.motortrades.co.uk/traffic-stats.asp

Our Terms and Conditions were written by Trading Standards and were reviewed at our request in August 2012 and do not breach any Trading Standards Legislation.

Our Terms can be referenced at the following link.

http://www.motortrades.co.uk/documents/advertisertcs.pdf

Recent postings claim that Customers “are forced to renew” their advertising agreements. This is a farcical claim and completely incorrect.

The position with regards to renewal is as follows.

Our standard agreements do contain an automatic renewal provision. Customers are reminded regularly throughout the term of their agreement that they can cancel an upcoming automatic renewal. If they choose to cancel the renewal, their campaign will simply lapse on the contracted end date.

To cancel the renewal they simply have to email operations.manager@motortrades.co.uk and they will receive a personal response confirming receipt of the instruction within two hours of receipt.

If they wish to cancel the provision by post they can do so by writing to our Head Office in Brentwood. If they write to us, they will receive a written response within 3 business days.

If they do not cancel automatic renewal, they will receive a new sales order and a renewal pack by mail.

This pack includes a letter (which we asked Trading Standards to write for us, to ensure that no legislation is breached) and this provides them a further 21 days to contact us and cancel the renewal.

If no contact is made within this 21 day timeframe required by law, the contract will be renewed on the same terms as their previous agreement.

Other recent postings claim that customers are not required to sign a contract.

This is also incorrect.

In order for a customer to be invoiced or billed, they have to 1) confirm the order by a recorded telephone call, (the call recording is a scripted call, and clarifies, the search terms being ordered, the payment terms and all salient terms) and 2) they are required to sign a contract.

If they choose not to sign the contract they are not billed.

Contracts are issued both electronically, using a world class e-sign provider (in our case, our chosen provider is echosign) and also by mail.

Customers can sign either, (many sign both) however, as previously stated, if they do not sign the agreement, they are not invoiced or billed and there is no commitment to purchase and there is not a legally binding agreement formed.

Other recent postings claim that we employ only a handful of staff. Again, totally incorrect; in July 2012 the Company announced the creation of 50 new jobs for Essex and was delighted when Eric Pickles, MP and Secretary of State for Communities visited our Head Office and made the announcement.

This can be referenced at the following link;

http://www.thisistotalessex.co.uk/Brentwood-f ... tail/story.html

Other postings go on to talk about Customer Complaints.

As previously stated, we have developed a business over the last six years which has generated around 520,000 listings on-line. The majority of businesses of this scale would, inevitably, have some unhappy customers for one reason or another, however, when things go wrong, we do our very best to put them right immediately, all customer complaints being acknowledged within a day or so of receipt (emails are usually acknowledged within an hour or so) and the majority of complaints are fully resolved the same day.

Recent postings have also questioned the authenticity of our customer testimonials published in our Marketing Material and on-line.

Each testimonial used is an exact and original testimonial received from a genuine customer and the full and original letter or email from the Customer is retained at our offices and is available for inspection by appointment.

The most recent 50 testimonials are available to view at the following link.

http://www.motortrades.co.uk/testimonials.asp

Summarising

We are a professional business; we have developed an industry leading platform over the last six years, are a significant employer in the Essex area, and have a thorough sales process using Terms and Conditions that are clear, plainly worded and easy to understand.

If you are a genuine customer with a complaint, we’d love to be able to put it right for you, and would ask that you contact us by email to operations.manager@motortrades.co.uk or in writing to our Brentwood Office, quoting your agreement number, which can be found in the subject line of the electronic agreement that we have issued to you after your recorded confirmation call.

We will be happy to help and will do our best to resolve your complaint with speed and professionalism.

Operations
01277 89 77 70
01277 89 78 03
0845 468 2000

Lines are Open Monday to Friday, 0915 to 1715. Please note that our offices are closed until 02 January 2013 fir the Christmas Break.

From https://whocallsme.com/nb/legal.aspx

"However, if a post contains information which you allege is false, we cannot simply remove information based on your request because doing so would place us in a position of having to determine which side is telling the truth. Because we cannot make such determinations, if you allege that a posting contains false and defamatory statements, you should pursue legal action against the author. You will need to file a law suit against anonymous speakers as Doe Defendants, and then use discovery to identify them."

"A valid subpoena from a North Carolina court or governmental entity must be presented before any personally identifying information is disclosed. Also, you have to follow the "Dendrite" procedure, explained below, to be sure that the affected party is informed of the request so he/she can take steps to protect their privacy.

As soon as you have your subpoena, you MUST post a notice on the message board ("Reply" to each post for which you are seeking the author’s information). This notice must explain that you have initiated a court proceeding in an effort to learn the author’s identity, and it should provide a case number and name/address of the court so that the author can appear and defend the case if necessary."

"Our Solicitors, Sanders Witherspoon LLP have been instructed to monitor this forum for further postings of a defamatory nature"

Which particular postings have been defamatory?

I for one would be very wary of entering into any type of agreement with a company which specifically employs a firm of solicitors to monitor complaints which the company deems to be defamatory:

http://www.google.com/search?q=sanders+witherspoon+%22motortrades%22

"...Eric Pickles, MP and Secretary of State for Communities visited our Head Office and made the announcement.."

1. Did you see the shorter link here?:

http://www.ericpickles.com/newsarticle.php?id=1861

Mr. Pickles said of his visit to MotorTrades.co.uk;

“There was a great buzz in the office and a real determination to get something done. I think it’s fantastic that Brentwood has a company like MotorTrades which is genuinely at the cutting edge of its sector. Motortrades.co.uk gives the independent motor trader a voice to compete with the big boys!”

2. Do you think " the independent motor trader" on this forum would like to voice their satisfaction with
www.MotorTrades.co.uk with Mr Pickles? Just in case they do, Mr Pickles' email and 'phone details are here:

http://www.ericpickles.com/contact2.php

....the following about Daniel Corby, all in the public domain:

http://emailwire.com/release/90895-MotorTrade ... tory-Space.html

EMAILWIRE.COM, June 01, 2012

Contact Information:
Motor Trades Ltd
Daniel Corby
Tel: 0845 468 2000

(Looks like he's still working at MotorTrades Ltd)

http://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/news/business-co ... uarantee-955402

Readers' Champion Lesley Campbell tells how not every directory properly vets all the companies on their lists.

WHEN I was contacted by a hairdresser concerned about an unexplained payment taken from her account, I discovered a highly lucrative scam that can be set up with little more than a computer, a mobile phone and a persuasive telephone manner.

Two years ago, Mrs Ericsson agreed to place an advert in a magazine's special beauty supplement and filled in a direct debit form to pay in instalments.

But, earlier this year, another payment was taken from her account with no warning or explanation.

The investigation into how this could have happened led us from one company to another via magazine sales agents and directory advertising consultants.

Documents bearing Mrs Ericsson's signature were faxed to her bank, to the magazine and back to the bank.

It transpired that the mandate she had filled in two years ago had been duplicated then presented to her bank for a second payment.

Paying money to advertise is the normal way for a small company to attract new business. But it's an increasingly dangerous practice.

The website 118Trades.com ran a trade directory which claimed to vet every company that advertised in it.

Unfortunately, an undercover operation revealed this was not the case. Many companies simply paid a fee and their advert duly appeared in the directory.

Other companies had a different problem. They claimed they had paid their fees but no advert had ever appeared.

Eventually Daniel Corby - who ran the company - was fined £19,000 following a prosecution by Surrey County Council's Trading Standards Service.

Typically, his clients would receive unsolicited calls offering advertising contracts for 18 months for a certain fee. Although the law stipulates that oral agreements must be confirmed in writing, the employees insisted that these verbal agreements were enforceable and demands for payment were sent out.

No advertising ever appeared and when the complainants asked for refunds, they were refused. After the prosecution, three customers did receive refunds through their credit card companies but a fourth - who had paid by other means - was unable to get her money back.

Mr Corby claimed his company vetted most of its applicants and a few had simply slipped through the net. But there is now no way to check this claim as the company has gone into liquidation - leaving behind even more frustrated advertisers trying to get their money back.

As 118Trades.com failed, another directory company was quick to express sympathy for the people who had lost money. Mr Kevin Byrne even offered guidance to companies wanting to advertise but who were concerned that a trade directory might not be legitimate.

A cursory investigation reveals that Mr Byrne's company, Checkatrade, had itself fallen foul of the Advertising Standards Authority (ASA) and would seem to be in no position to take this lofty stance.

The ASA considered that the company had represented itself as an information service supplying names of reputable tradesman to potential customers but had failed to reveal its commercial relationship with these tradesmen.

By not making clear it charged the traders a fee, the ASA believed that many readers would believe the list of traders' names had been produced by an official not-for-profit organisation, or Trading Standards department.

It's hard to know which directories are honest - and this is a problem which affects people looking for tradesmen as well as the tradesmen themselves.

A considerable number of consumers have complained about the service they've received from firms they believed to have been vetted, but which turned out to have had little in the way of expertise.

There are a number of websites dedicated to consumer complaints, although anonymous comments can be posted by competitors or disgruntled former employees.

Information on these sites should be taken with a pinch of salt but if a company is mentioned over and over again, it may well be an indication that caution should be exercised.

If you're considering parting with money to a company you're not sure of, take a quick look at www.grumbletext.com, www.blagger.com or www.usob.couk.

Trust Mark is a new scheme supported by the Government, consumer groups and the building industry to help you find firms to do repair, maintenance and improvement work inside and outside your home. Its website is at www.trustmark.org.uk

I TRY to help everyone who writes in, but sometimes the volume of letters makes this impossible. Please put your full name and phone number on your letter or email. Don't send any original documents or include your account details. You can email me at Money@ dailyrecord.co.uk or write to me, Lesley Campbell, at Daily Record, One Central Quay, Glasgow G3 8DA

http://wck2.companieshouse.gov.uk//dirsec   (search for Daniel Corby)

Addresses displayed are supplied by the court or other disqualifying authority when notifying the disqualification

Name :     DANIEL CORBY
Address :    
(redacted)
WRITTLE
CHELMSFORD
Postcode :    CM1 3EY
Date of Birth :    (redacted)
Nationality :    BRITISH
Number of disqualification orders : 1

Disqualified From: 08/10/2010 To: 07/10/2016
Company No: 06456066
Reason : CDDA 1986 S7

The screen shows details of current disqualification orders and undertakings against company directors, company secretaries and members of limited liability partnerships and SE (Societas Europaea) Members.

Company Directors and Secretaries:

A company director may be disqualified as a result of an investigation by one of the following authorities:-

The Police - if fraud is suspected.
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The Courts also have power to make a disqualification order where a company director is convicted of an indictable offence in relation to certain matters in connection with a company.

If a person is disqualified then that person shall not, for the period of his disqualification except with leave of the court:-

Be a director of a company
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The Company Directors Disqualification Act 1986 (the "CDDA")

Disqualification orders are made, and undertakings accepted, under sections 2, 8 and 10 of the Company Directors Disqualification Act 1986 (the "CDDA").

Sections 2 - 5: Disqualifications for general misconduct in connection with companies -
2: On conviction of an indictable offence.
3: For persistent breaches of company legislation.
4: For fraud, etc, in winding-up.
5: On conviction of summary offences.

Sections 6 - 8: Disqualification for unfitness to act as company director -
6: Duty of court to disqualify unfit directors of insolvent companies .
7: The Secretary of State may accept a disqualification order where the conditions in section 6(1) are met and it appears to him to be expedient to do so in the public interest.
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The Secretary of State may accept an undertaking from a company director under sections 7 or 8 of the Company Directors Disqualification Act 1986.

Sections 10: Fraudulent or Wrongful Trading -
10: A court may make a disqualification order where it makes a declaration in relation to fraudulent or to wrongful trading.

Sections 11 and 12: Miscellaneous Disqualification -

11: This section provides that, except with leave of court, undischarged bankrupts are disqualified from acting as directors or taking part in or being concerned in the promotion, formation or management of a company

12: This section provides that, except with leave of court, where an administration order under section 429 of the County Courts Act 1984 has been revoked and an order made under that section a person subject to such an order is similarly disqualified and also may not act as a liquidator.

The maximum period of disqualification depends upon the provision under which the order is made, or undertaking accepted, and is either 5 years or 15 years .

Section 17: Application for leave under an order or undertaking -
A Director may apply to a Court to vary the terms of the original Disqualification Order or undertaking. In certain circumstances the court may allow the disqualified individual to continue as a director of a specific company or companies for either an interim period of time or the whole term of the disqualification. Details of any exemptions will be provided.

For further information, please refer to the Company Directors Disqualification Act 1986.
Members of Limited Liability Partnerships

A member of a limited liability partnership (LLP) can be subject to a disqualification order or undertaking under the provisions of the Limited Liability Regulations 2001. A partner can also be subject to a disqualification order or undertaking under the provisions of the Insolvent Partnerships Order 1994.

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